Episode #97: Where Are They Now? Netflix Reunion with Frank

Download the full transcript PDF.

[00:00:00] Ramit: Before we get started, I wanted to remind you that I am hosting a live Q&A tonight, answering any questions you’ve got about my Netflix show, How To Get Rich. So here’s what you need to do if you want to ask me anything about how do we find the people that we cast on the show? Or was I surprised by any specific moments in the show? How did I handle some of the stuff that happened? 

First off, watch the entire show. Go through all eight episodes. I don’t want any spoilers for you on this Q&A because it’s live tonight. Second, use the link in the show notes below and you can ask any question you’ve got. I will try to answer as many as I possibly can. And finally, come back tonight to my YouTube channel, and we are going to be going live at 6:30 PM Eastern, where I answer everything you’ve got about my Netflix show, How To Get Rich. Thanks, and I’ll see you tonight.

[00:00:51] Frank: Oh, well, I don’t know if you know, I ended up quitting my job.

[00:00:54] Ramit: Yeah, I remember. So you went full-time as an influencer.

[00:00:58] Frank: Yeah. It’s been rough. Going from getting paid every week to not getting paid every week, not getting paid every month, not getting paid every three months, sometimes, has kicked my ass, if I can say ass. I think I went from September to– no, probably August to November with no deals.

[00:01:22] Ramit: Ooh. When did you start getting worried?

[00:01:25] Frank: If I’m being quite honest, I’m still worried today, if I’m being very honest with you. Keep in mind now, bills don’t stop. So things are still– my life is still moving. My rent is still coming out every month. So what’s happening now is I went through– with the deals that I did have, I’ve spent that money on bills. I’ve paid down some debt, and now I’m pulling out of my savings to live. Because I was like, you literally quit your job to do this, and this is not working out for. You have made the dumbest decision of your life. 

[00:02:01] Ramit: How much longer can you go?

[00:02:05] Frank: Not long.

[Narration] 

[00:02:07] Ramit: Today you’re going to hear my follow up with Frank from my Netflix show, How To Get Rich. So if you haven’t already finished the entire series, go do that right now. This is my one and only spoiler alert. Now, Frank left his job as a full-time social worker to become a full-time social media influencer. Let’s find out how he’s doing a year after the show was filmed. And as a quick reminder, you can listen to this on any podcast platform, and you can watch on YouTube so you can see Frank’s eye contact and body language, which is quite revealing in today’s conversation. Let’s get into it.

[Interview]

[00:02:48] Ramit: Frank, how you doing? I’m good, but I can barely hear you.

[00:02:55] Frank: Oh, I knew it.

[00:02:57] Ramit: Oh, this is not good. Can you get headphones that are, uh, plugged?

[00:03:08] Frank: I’m supposed to be–

[00:03:10] Ramit: No, I can’t hear the music, but I just can’t hear you hardly at all. It’s really muffled. Let’s do it when we can get this right. Get home, do your thing. Let’s reschedule it for some time. Yeah, I know, but we got to do it tight. So will you be flexible with my team so we can get you on the calendar?

[00:03:41] Frank: Uh-huh. When do you think we got to do it? This week?

[00:03:45] Ramit: Uh, soon. Yeah, I don’t know. I’ll leave it to them, but soon.

[00:03:50] Frank: Okay. Yeah.

[00:03:51] Ramit: Okay. All right. We’ll get back in touch. And then I do want to connect– I mean, I obviously want to know everything about what’s going on. I’m excited to hear it. Uh, but let’s save it so we’re rolling. 

[Narration]

[00:04:01] Ramit: Frank didn’t really come prepared to talk. He was sitting in the back of a noisy cafe, so I suggested that we wait until he was in a better situation so we could hear each other. As you listen today, I want you to notice how that presentation, that lack of preparation, was indicative of some of the ways that Frank treats his money. Let’s go on to the next conversation we had where he was in a quieter place. 

[Interview]

[00:04:29] Ramit: Yes, Frank, how you doing?

[00:04:32] Frank: Great. How are you?

[00:04:33] Ramit: Oh, you look great, and you sound great. Thank you.

[00:04:37] Frank: I’m great, thanks.

[00:04:38] Ramit: This is so awesome. I’ve been following you on social since we talked last, and I have so much to catch up on.

[00:04:44] Frank: Yes, you do.

[00:04:45] Ramit: So the last time we talked in person was in your garage, and we had had a long day filming, and I mean, it was great. I always have a great time talking to you. We chatted a little bit here and there, but I want to know just overall, how are things going? Tell me the good. Tell me the bad. Tell me everything.

[00:05:07] Frank: Oh, well, I don’t know if you know, I ended up quitting my job.

[00:05:10] Ramit: Yeah, I remember. So you went full-time as an influencer.

[00:05:14] Frank: Yes. I’ve worked with some amazing brands. Panera Bread, McDonald’s. I went to New York on Wednesday because they wanted me to do a review on a new show that was coming out. Uh, so getting paid to do stuff like that is like, wait, you want me to just come to New York and just do a review, and you’re going to pay me for it? Uh, so it’s amazing. 

I need to basically– after this show comes out, I think we have to do what we did again, because I am in a totally different financial situation than I was in, but I feel like trying to reapply to this new lifestyle as an entrepreneur has been hard as H-E double hockey stick. Going from getting paid every week to not getting paid every week, not getting paid every month, not getting paid every three months, sometimes, has kicked my ass, if I can say ass.

[00:06:08] Ramit: Wow. Yeah. You can say anything you want.

[00:06:10] Frank: Yeah, it’s been rough. So rough that I was about to call you and be like, Ramit, I need you to tell me that entrepreneurship, it’s okay what you’re going through, because I don’t have a lot of friends that are in that space where I could get a perfect example. I got paid– I’m going to get paid $4,000 from what I did just to go to New York. I won’t see that money for 60 days though.

[00:06:35] Ramit: Ah, yeah.

[00:06:37] Frank: So it’s like–

[00:06:37] Ramit: And then you got to hold taxes back and all that stuff. Yeah. Well, listen, first of all, you can call me anytime. Hit me up anytime, any questions you have. Anything. Doesn’t matter. Being an entrepreneur for the first time, especially if you don’t have people around you, you feel up one day, you feel super down another day, and you’re not even sure if that’s normal.

[00:06:59] Frank: Yeah. It’s been rough.

[00:07:03] Ramit: Let’s talk about the numbers for a second. So back then, you had a full-time job, and you were doing some influencer work on the side. 

[00:07:09] Frank: I was making I think around 6,000 a month.

[00:07:13] Ramit: 6,000 a month. That was your salary. And then you had some extra on top once in a while. 

[00:07:17] Frank: Yeah.

[00:07:17] Ramit: Okay. So you went from 6,000 consistently to zero. When you first went full-time as an influencer, what was happening with the money back then?

[00:07:28] Frank: When I decided to quit, I had a deal with, um, McDonald’s, that was a five-figure deal, and I was like, okay, this is my sign. I can do this. I’m about to quit. Uh, that was an $11,000 deal. Um, that, uh, was my first big deal like that. And I was like, okay, I’m getting $11,000. You know me. I went out to party. Um– 

[00:07:55] Ramit: What? Hold on. Uh, how are your friends doing, the ones from brunch? God, I love that. That was amazing.

[00:08:02] Frank: They’re great. They’re like, oh, it must be nice to not– they’re still working, so they think my job now is just, oh, must be nice. And I’m just like, yeah.

[00:08:13] Ramit: Frank’s gallivanting around to New York. Frank’s getting a check from McDonald’s. Okay. All right. So you went out, partied a little bit. I get it. And what happened to that 11k?

[00:08:23] Frank: Ooh, it went down.

[00:08:24] Ramit: How fast?

[00:08:26] Frank: Fast. Yeah. I’ve seen a lot of money come in and go out fast. I think what I started noticing in may be October, I think I went from September to– no, probably August to November with no deals.

[00:08:46] Ramit: Ooh. When did you start getting worried?

[00:08:49] Frank: If I’m being quite honest, I’m still worried today, if I’m being very honest with you. Keep in mind now, bills don’t stop. So things are still– my life is still moving. My rent is still coming out every month. So what’s happening now is I went through– with the deals that I did have, I’ve spent that money on bills. I’ve paid down some debt, and now I’m pulling out of my savings to live. 

So, um, I think end of November, after I went through probably the lowest point of my life where I didn’t want to get out of bed, because I was like, you literally quit your job to do this, and this is not working out for you. So for about a week, I didn’t want to get out of bed at all. I was literally like, you have made the dumbest decision of your life.

[Narration]

[00:09:44] Ramit: Frank already had a spending problem, which he openly admitted, but now that he’s a full-time entrepreneur, he has to have a lot of skills that are not commonly talked about. And this is true whenever you go to a different phase of life. It can be moving into a house, it can be having children, or getting a new job.

You’ve got to develop new skills to handle the situation that you are now in. As an entrepreneur, he might have a $20,000-month, and then he might go three months without making any income at all. As an entrepreneur, you’ve got to know how to spread your income out over these different months where your income might go up and down. 

Like I said, very few talk about this, but very few of us actually want to hear this either. If you’re going to become an entrepreneur, probably the last thing you’re thinking of is how do I manage my sporadic income? Most people just simply see something they want and they go after it without thinking about planning.

But I like to plan. I like to plan for what can go right and also what can go wrong. A $11,000 deal, like Frank is mentioning, seems like a lot of money, but when you put it in the context of being an entrepreneur, it’s actually not that much. Listen, as Frank talks more about his new business.

[Interview]

[00:11:01] Frank: Um, I got to deal with Panera Bread, and it was for $8,000. And I was like, okay, that’s helping me. Then I got to deal with Giant. I’m a Giant ambassador now, the grocery store up here. Uh, so I got to deal with them, and I was like, okay. That’s $8,000. This is $7,000. That’s the momentum that I need in my head, like, okay. It’s coming in slow. I still ain’t got that money.

[00:11:30] Ramit: Oh really?

[00:11:31] Frank: That was last year.

[00:11:33] Ramit: Whoa. Why so slow?

[00:11:35] Frank: Uh, so brands pay you, uh, those deals, because they’re at the end of the year, calendar year, they’re on a net 60. It’s not a net 60 from when you sign the contract, when you shoot the content. It’s from net 60 from whatever day they receive and process the invoice.

[00:11:52] Ramit: Whoa.

[00:11:52] Frank: Oh. Now, um, one, I won’t say the brand because it’s a podcast, but one of the brands, it’s been passed net 60. It’s net 80, and I still have not gotten my money.

[00:12:02] Ramit: Wait. Are we about to put this brand on blast? Why not? We don’t have any– we have no minders. No, nobody. It’s just me and a few million people who are listening.

[00:12:11] Frank: Yeah. So it was– see, the thing is, it is never really the brand. It’s usually the people in the middle.

[00:12:18] Ramit: Okay. 

[00:12:18] Frank: So they don’t–

[00:12:18] Ramit: Yeah, you’re right. Let’s not– you know what? 

[00:12:22] Frank: I’ll tell you offline though.

[00:12:23] Ramit: Okay. I know you will. And I love that you are the voice of reason in this conversation. I’m like, tell me Frank, who is it? And you’re like, mm. So in terms of paying your bills right now, are you still drawing from savings?

[00:12:34] Frank: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:35] Ramit: Okay. Let’s talk about that because when we were shooting, you got that money from winning The Circle. So we talked a little bit about what to do with that 75k. How much of that money is left?

[00:12:50] Frank: Uh, 20.

[00:12:51] Ramit: 20k. All right, so it went from 75 to 20. And where did that money go?

[00:12:57] Frank: Uh, my livelihood, bills. Uh, yeah. Taken out of my savings. I literally take out of my savings to pay myself.

[00:13:08] Ramit: How much longer can you go?

[00:13:11] Frank: Not long. But see, the thing is, every time I’m almost like, okay, I’m going back to work, a deal falls out the sky. New York fell out the sky. Um, $4,000 to somebody else may not be a lot of money, but to somebody, that’s a lot of money. So things are happening, but they’re not happening how I thought they would. And I think that’s what, um, stresses me out the most. Because it’s like– I swear, every time I go to my savings and I’m like, okay, I got to take some out of my savings, I hear you in the back of my head, and I be like, this is not what I’m supposed to be doing.

[00:13:53] Ramit: Listen, I’ll send you one of my headshots going like this–

[00:13:57] Frank: Literally, I need it.

[00:13:58] Ramit: If you want to stick it on there.

[00:13:59] Frank: I need it. I’m going to put it on my wallpaper on my phone.

[Narration]

[00:14:02] Ramit: Frank is what I call a believer. He believes that success is just one deal away. And believers use phrases like “it will all work out” or “the universe will provide.” In Frank’s case, he actually loves these 0% balance transfers. He loves the fact that he’s got to go out and find another deal quickly, make sure he can cover his expenses.

And sometimes people even love net 60 because it gives them a purpose. And that chaos, which to other people would be intolerable, is to them familiar. But in my opinion, it’s hard to become successful if you are constantly hustling and hoping that success is right around the corner. Believers almost never take my advice about consistent saving and low cost long-term investing. You know why? Because it’s simply too boring for them.

[Interview]

[00:15:02] Frank: Uh, a lot of days, if I’m being quite honest, I feel like I’m moving backwards. 

[00:15:07] Ramit: Well, hold on. So those bills that you were hiding from yourself on the wall, what happened to those?

[00:15:14] Frank: Uh, I mean, I’m sure I got a few up there. I looked at my mails the other day and I was like, I need to open the mail. Every time I look at the mail, I’m like–

[00:15:21] Ramit: Wait a minute. It’s full again?

[00:15:23] Frank: No, it’s not full, but I literally have been storing things up. They’re like, I know. I literally got a ticket two days ago, and I thought about you.

[00:15:30] Ramit: Frank, those tickets, is this a joke?

[00:15:34] Frank: I’m going to get me a bicycle.

[00:15:36] Ramit: Listen. I’ve seen the craziest financial situations on the planet. I’ve seen it all. Nothing phases me, but when I saw how many tickets you had, I said, is this for real? And the tickets, what was it? 2016, 20– it was years ago. I said, “Frank, is this for real?”

[00:15:52] Frank: Yeah. I feel like that scene is going to be so funny.

[00:15:56] Ramit: The look on my face. Everyone on the whole crew was dying because nobody knew. It was just me. I spotted out of the corner of my eye, and then the minute I said, hey, Frank, what’s all that stuff over there? You got real quiet.

[00:16:09] Frank: I was like, what are you doing now?

[00:16:10] Ramit: Yeah.

[00:16:12] Frank: Business. I talked to you about how God told me to quit that job. Um, so I haven’t hit my year mark yet. I told myself I was going to give myself a year, and if I didn’t like it, I was going to go back to work.

[00:16:23] Ramit: So you’ve been, uh, full-time as an influencer for eight months. 

[00:16:26] Frank: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:27] Ramit: If you add up everything you’ve made so far, how much is it?

[00:16:31] Frank: Uh, from being an influencer? 

[00:16:34] Ramit: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:39] Frank: As of now, I probably would say– If had to guess, maybe between 35 and 45.

[00:16:46] Ramit: Okay. So over the course of a year, sounds like you’re maybe making a little bit less than you used to make full-time.

[00:16:54] Frank: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:55] Ramit: Okay. What do you need that number to be in order for you to decide whether to stick with it or not?

[00:17:00] Frank: What do I need it to be by the time July comes?

[00:17:03] Ramit: Yeah.

[00:17:03] Frank: I think I would want it to be at least 75, 80.

[00:17:07] Ramit: Okay. Yeah. Eighty because now you’re paying some extra taxes that you weren’t paying when you were full-time.

[00:17:15] Frank: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:17] Ramit: So that’s going to make the decision pretty easy, right?

[00:17:20] Frank: Yeah.

[00:17:20] Ramit: It’s like, if the number’s here, I’m on a good trajectory. Keep going. If not, full-time job. And if you do a full-time job, could you still keep doing some influencer work?

[00:17:30] Frank: Yeah. Because I think the jobs that I’m looking at now are influencer marketing jobs.

[00:17:35] Ramit: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:35] Frank: So I would basically be in the same industry, um, working from home, remote, but looking for people like me to work on projects for brands. So yeah, I think I’m really good at content creating. I’m really good in this space, um, but ideally, I would. If I’m going back to a full-time job that requires me to be on somebody else’s time from 9 to 5, I want it to be something that at least I enjoy.

[00:17:59] Ramit: Yeah. Is it a money thing? Is it a feelings thing? What is it for you?

[00:18:03] Frank: Right now, it’s a feelings thing. I don’t want to– I’ve been in a place where I was comfortable. I haven’t been financially wealthy, but I’ve been in a space where I was comfortable. Um, and I find myself, sometimes, in this entrepreneur journey. Right now, I’m not comfortable. Um, and I know that– even the money that I have in my hands now, I’ve been in worse financial situations than what I am in now, but I don’t want to go back there. And I know that– I’m turning 30 in April. I don’t want to be in a space where I don’t feel that comfort.

[00:18:47] Ramit: Yeah.

[00:18:47] Frank: Life has already been hard enough for me. I can’t make it harder for me than it has to be. I don’t deserve that.

[00:18:56] Ramit: Yeah, I agree with you.

[00:18:58] Frank: A lot of people will try to be a content creator or things like that and not realize that this shit is hard.

[Narration]

[00:19:06] Ramit: Sometimes the most valuable thing you can do is know when to quit. I have this program called Earnable. It helps you find an idea and start a business on the side. And in that program, we also talk about when to know if the idea is not going to work so you can quit. That’s because one of the worst things you can do is go what’s called sideways, just completely flat.

Not failing abruptly, not succeeding dramatically, but just every day you wake up and you have to just keep hustling. It sucks. And that’s why it’s important to know when something is working and when to quit.  If you’re interested, I’ll add a link to the Earnable program, which also includes coaching from me. 

[Interview]

[00:19:52] Ramit: What’s up with your expenses? When we talked, you were living in a very inexpensive apartment, which I said, do not move. You still live there?

[00:20:03] Frank: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:04] Ramit: You do. Yeah. My man.

[00:20:07] Frank: I told myself– this was my deal. And when I did this, I said, Ramit’s going to be proud of me for this. I said, if I’m going– I said, I’m either going to quit my job and stay one more year in this place, or I’m going to keep my job and then I will be able to move. So I didn’t move. I sacrificed my living. But I do have good news.

[00:20:27] Ramit: Tell me.

[00:20:28] Frank: So I have never heard of this happening, but I’m a manifestor, and everything I say in my head, it happens. I literally told my friend one day, I said, “I just create such great content that it would be so nice if an apartment complex would want me to create content for them and live for free.” That’s happening.

[00:20:46] Ramit: What? Come on. What?

[00:20:48] Frank: Yes.

[00:20:48] Ramit: Wait, what? Explain this to me. I’ve never even heard of this.

[00:20:51] Frank: Yeah. So apartment complex up here, it is, um, they’re tailoring to where people can live and create. So they have musicians coming in, they have, uh, a chef coming in, and they have a content creator coming in, and that content creator is me.

[00:21:08] Ramit: Okay. Very creative. All right. I like hearing the creativity. When does that start?

[00:21:12] Frank: July.

[00:21:13] Ramit: Oh, okay. And, um, let’s talk about the going out expenses too. So has anything changed in terms of going out?

[00:21:23] Frank: Yeah. I don’t go out as frequently. I don’t go out. I used to go out three days in the weekend. I don’t do that anymore. Um, I try to limit my spend into $200. Luckily, people know me, and they always want to drink with me, so they buy drinks for me. Um, so yeah. But I don’t do– that’s not a consistent thing. I’m not out every weekend anymore.

It doesn’t make me happy anymore, and it’s a different scene that money coming out of your account when you’ve given it on alcohol and having a good time week after week after week and your money isn’t coming in. 

I was working. It was like, okay, I got money coming in in two weeks or whatever. But now it’s like, no, you just spent $300 out on Sunday, and you ain’t about to see $300 come into your account for maybe three months. That’s not realistic. I can’t live like that.

So every single thing has to be accounted for. And every single thing– I have to be accountable for how I spend. So if I’m going out spending $300, can you recently do that, right now? And no, I can’t. Not every weekend. Maybe once or twice a month? Yeah. Because I’m going to go out, but can I do it how I used to do it? No.

[00:22:38] Ramit: Wow.

[00:22:39] Frank: That won’t get me to the point where I want to be. I want to be wealthy.

[00:22:43] Ramit: You put yourself in a position where nobody’s coming to save you. It’s Frank. That’s it. That really forces you to get honest, and it forces you to get creative.

[00:22:53] Narration: [Narration]

[00:22:53] Ramit: This is an interesting point. Sometimes when you discover someone behaves peculiarly with money, you might discover that they have been enabled financially for decades. The most common example is someone who’s had all their expenses covered by their spouse, and they just don’t know how to behave responsibly with money.

I actually remember this interview with a famous actress who worked with a very famous actor, and they asked her, what was it like to work with him? And she said, “What would you be like if no one had ever told you no for the last 50 years?” 

What Frank will later admit is that he has been enabled in a variety of ways. He was given money as a child, not taught how to use it. When he won The Circle on Netflix, he was enabled by this huge infusion of cash. He will even later explain that he felt his job enabled him because it was money in and money out, never having to really look at the line items of what he was spending.

But something really interesting is happening here. Because he is now an entrepreneur, he has to look at how his money is flowing. He has to track where he’s spending his money because if he doesn’t track it, he doesn’t have a job that’s going to just pay him. He doesn’t have more winnings coming from another TV show. He has to be in control. 

And in this way, a cloud has almost been lifted from his eyes, forcing him to get real about money. Incidentally, this is the only way you can get believers to change their behavior, and that is to pull the rug out from under them, because otherwise they continue to be enabled and unrealistic with money.

[Interview]

[00:24:41] Ramit: Talk to me about your debt. What’s the state of your debt?

[00:24:45] Frank: Uh, nothing much has changed. Uh, I think that the student loan debt is still there. Of course, she is sitting very, um, pretty, um, 

[00:24:55] Ramit: What is it now? How much?

[00:24:57] Frank: It’s like a 169, 175.

[00:25:00] Ramit: Is it growing?

[00:25:02] Frank: No. Because the thing– it’s on hold right now, so the interest hasn’t, um, started back. Um, but when it does– I think it starts back soon. I’m going to start making payments to it. Yeah. Because if I’m paying on it, I don’t want it to get bigger. I need it to stay where it is. So I want to pay something. 

[00:25:22] Ramit: You need it to come down?

[00:25:23] Frank: Yeah. Significantly. Um, so yeah, that’s that. I have about $9,000 left on my car, so I plan on paying that off really soon.

[00:25:35] Ramit: When’s that going to be done?

[00:25:36] Frank: Uh, I want to have it done by August. I really just want to get a contract and knock it out. Um, just because I don’t– if I go into it with the mindset that I won’t be paying rent in July and I don’t have a car loan immediately after that, that’s a lot of money that I’m saving, um, every month. So I want to go ahead and knock that out.

Um, credit card debt is not significant because I don’t– that’s another big thing I learned in this journey. I was doing so great with my credit cards because I was making a paycheck every two weeks. Nobody told me how difficult it is to pay off credit card debt when you don’t get paid.

[00:26:19] Ramit: Yeah. And it goes up.

[00:26:22] Frank: Yes. So that was a battle too. I think in the– right when I quit, I had gotten used to, oh, I’m just going to put it on my credit card, blah, blah, blah, and pay it off. But man, I think– I don’t want to say it was around that time where the contracts weren’t coming in. And I was like, okay, well, I’m just going to use my credit card till I get a contract.

[00:26:42] Ramit: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:44] Frank: That was a terrible idea. So I learned quickly. Um, so I’m working on paying one down. I think the balance is 3– I have like three cards. All of them are $3,000 in total.

[00:26:58] Ramit: Got to get rid of those. 

[00:26:59] Frank: I’m paying that down. 

[00:27:00] Ramit: Yeah.

[00:27:01] Frank: Um, and when I pay them down, I don’t want to use them unless it’s just for an emergency. Um, because it’s if I don’t have it, I don’t have it.

[00:27:11] Ramit: Yeah, that’s right.

[00:27:12] Frank: And I don’t need to be borrowing from somebody else if I don’t already have it.

[Narration]

[00:27:16] Ramit:  Notice the way he talks about paying off his car. He says, “I really want to get a contract and knock that out.” This is the episodic transactional view of money. The idea that there’s one deal right around the corner that’s going to enable me to pay off my debt, or pay off my car, or pay for that trip to Morocco, or whatever.

I would never talk about money this way. For me, if I had a car note that I owed money on, I would say, I’m paying $450 a month. I know the exact month and year it’s going to be paid off. Here’s my interest rate, etc. It would be part of a system. There would be nothing left up to chance, 

 This is a much more advanced way to look at money, where you make a plan, then you map it out, and you automate it. If you want to do this for your money, you can use my book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich, to set this up and then get on with your life.

[Interview]

[00:28:07] Ramit: What are you most proud of from our work together?

[00:28:13] Frank: I’m proud that I learned that it’s okay to talk about money. But now I’m very comfortable not only having those conversations with you, I have those conversations with my friends. We talk about money. Um, I just had a very in-depth conversation with a friend about money. Um, and I had to basically tell her that– I was giving her advice about money now that I think about it. Um, but yeah, I was just basically telling her, I was like, the things that– you’re struggling to pay your rent, but you– she wants to come up here for my birthday.

And I said, those things don’t– I understand you want to support me and you want to have a good time, but that may not be a good idea if you’re struggling with your basic needs. And I think– we’re friends because we all go through some of the same challenges. And it never was a person to be like, oh. The old me, I would’ve been like, girl, fuck that rent and come on up here and have a good time. You can pay the rent next week. But now it’s like, no. We’re getting older.

We have to really say what’s important, what’s vital, what do I need to do to make sure that I’m self-sufficient? And that’s not you coming up here when you have some things at home you need to take care of. Yeah.

[00:29:30] Ramit: That’s awesome. It’s almost like you put on a new pair of lenses and you’re looking at the same world in a totally different way.

[00:29:37] Frank: Yeah.

[00:29:37] Ramit: When you signed up to do this show, and when you heard that somebody was going to come knocking on your door and talk to you about money, what did you think this was going to be?

[00:29:47] Frank: I’m not really going to learn a whole bunch, and I’m not– I didn’t think that you would really care to be that invested into my success. But I really think that you really want everybody you work with and everybody that reads your books and come across your content, you want everybody to experience a rich life. And I think we all can. Um, so I think that was probably the biggest thing. I didn’t think you were going to be really that invested. 

Um, I thought you was just going to be like, okay, we’re filming a few scenes. Here’s the book. Do what you got to do. We’re showing up to do this, and bye. I definitely don’t feel that way. I feel like you are definitely the person where it’s like, like I said, you’re in the back of my head all the time. What would Ramit do?

[00:30:38] Ramit: Good. I appreciate you saying that. And one of the reasons that I did this show and that sometimes I would get upset or I would get super happy, it was all over the place for me too, is that I do get invested. I’m talking to you, meeting your friends, and hearing about your family situation. Of course, I get invested. And so that’s why I want you to know it’s not just right now that we’re talking, but you should text me, DM me anytime. It means a lot for me.

[00:31:08] Frank: Okay. Well, I will, because I got a little idea, and I think you’re the only person that can help me.

[00:31:13] Ramit: Okay. All right. I remember that one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to you and that I was really excited to meet you was, first, I looked at your finances while I was sitting in LA, and I remember going, this guy likes to have fun. He likes to have a good time. And I like that. I like people who spend on the things they love.

So I was like, I got to meet Frank. That’s all I knew about you, is your spending and your name. That’s it. And then when we met, I was like, oh, okay. It’s this place. Got it. I get it. And your friends were awesome, and it actually taught me a lot about who you were to be able to see you in that dynamic with your friends.

Yeah. I just think your story has been incredible, and I was just excited to get a chance to meet you because I know you said, I don’t want to repeat this generational lesson that I’ve learned, and I want to change it. And I was excited to be able to help you do that.

[00:32:08] Frank: Yeah, you did. I think the biggest thing that I’ve learned in all of this is that you will always find yourself in having issues with your finances if you don’t change the way you think all the way around. How you spend, how you negotiate, what you do with your money. If I get– how I’m investing my money.

 I think I’m growing. I’m getting to that point now where it’s like, okay, it’s been eight months, and you’re not perfect at it, but you’re waking up every day now. You’re figuring it out. And that’s all I can do. Becoming more knowledgeable about just what I want to feel and what I deserve to feel.

[00:32:53] Ramit: The way I look at it is, you’ve put yourself under a lot of pressure, and I actually don’t see that as a bad thing. I think that in the past, you had money coming in, and it allowed you to make some decisions that were not serving you. You’re now under a lot of pressure. 

You’ve got heat coming at you from every direction, and for me, I think that’s a beautiful thing because it forces away all these layers of stuff you didn’t need, and underneath, right at the center is this beautiful diamond. And you’re looking for that. That is the true you. And that diamond might look a certain way, it might do a certain thing, you don’t know, but those pressures are making you change so that we can reveal who you really are.

[00:33:38] Frank: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:39] Ramit: That’s how I look at it. 

[00:33:41] Frank: I agree. So I feel as if I am the closest to the person I’m supposed to be.

[00:33:48] Ramit: Wow.

[00:33:48] Frank: I’m not there yet. 

[00:33:50] Ramit: Okay. 

[00:33:50] Frank: But even despite what I’ve went through in these past eight months, I feel that all of it was necessary. I’m almost there. I feel like I’m on a journey, and I’m through most of the darkness, and the sun is about to come up really, really quickly.

[00:34:06] Ramit: Frank, it is so great to see you. We had so much fun together, and I want to keep the conversation going, so anytime, reach out. I’m going to be watching. I watch all your socials. I love it. And, um, I’m so excited for this show to come out and for everyone to see your story. 

[00:34:20] Frank: So this is your first time on TV.

[00:34:23] Ramit: Like this, yeah.

[00:34:24] Frank: Wow. It’s going to be crazy. You’re going to–

[00:34:26] Ramit: Well, I got to get some advice from you.

[00:34:28] Frank: When I tell you, it’s crazy.

[00:34:30] Ramit: Tell me. What do I need to expect?

[00:34:32] Frank: Uh, I think a huge amount of gratitude, uh, is the biggest thing I would say. I’m not sure where your path lies or where you thought you would be in the world, but to know that just your voice and, especially for you, your knowledge of what you put so much time into, um, is worth being on a national network for everyone. so you’ll always have that. I think it’s so amazing. I mean, even for me, doing this a second time, just getting the opportunity like this, it’s crazy because TV is big, and not a lot of people get on TV, and it means a lot. So I say, take all of it in.

[00:35:14] Ramit: Wow. I really appreciate that. I have asked a few people who have experience with this what to expect, and nobody has quite said gratitude. And it actually feels really good to hear you say that. So I am thankful, and I’m glad you shared that with me.

That was a lot of fun. I want to share a few lessons that I took away from my catch up with Frank just now. First, he’s talking about money in a much savvier way than when we first met. He himself admitted that when he had a job, he was just seeing money come in, and he wasn’t really thinking about where it went out.

Now, he’s a lot more conscious about how much he’s got left. So that’s a good thing. He’s more comfortable saying no to friends. That’s a good thing. And he’s aware. He’s starting to make rules for himself. I think I’m going to apply for a full-time job in July. That’s exactly what I want to see with people. I want people to develop a point of view about money, and ultimately, even some money rules. You can go to Google and search “money rules Ramit Sethi”, and you’ll see my 10 money rules. Those are my rules. You should create your own. 

On the other hand, Frank has not paid off any of his debt, which is over $150,000, and his winnings, which I believe if I remember correctly, were about $150,000, then 75 have now dwindled down to 20k. So that’s not good. This is a great lesson where sometimes people make impulsive decisions. And for becoming an entrepreneur, one of the things that I recommend to people in some of my Earnable programs and things like that is before you jump full-time, create a rule for yourself. 

So it might be something like, I’m going to have three months of income before I quit my job and go full-time on this. In my case, it was, I’m going to make more from my business than my full-time job for three months in a row that way I know it’s not a fluke. What we’re seeing with Frank is what doesn’t get talked about a lot, which is you jump into this exciting entrepreneurship thing, but it doesn’t quite work out, and it becomes extremely stressful.

While he’s savvier talking about money, he’s also really stressed out because there’s a ticking clock on how long he can go doing this. And I don’t want anyone to feel that way. I don’t want you to have your back against the wall with money. That’s a very unhealthy way to live.

The last thing that I noticed about Frank is a lot of gratitude. He had it the first time we talked. He still has it now, and I just love that quality of him. In fact, when I asked him, what should I expect, because he’s been on Netflix before, I have not, his answer was about gratitude. And I think that’s pretty special. So I’m wishing Frank the best. 

Personally, if it were up to me, although it’s not, I would get a full-time job. I would keep doing the influencer work on top of a full-time job. I would take the extra money and directly start investing it. I would pay off that debt. I would do those both at the same time, and I would give myself a long-term horizon, meaning I don’t need to pay off this debt in one year. It’s going to take time. It took years to accumulate. It’s going to take time to pay off, but I would get comfortable being patient because a rich life takes time to build. So that would be what I would do. Ultimately, it’s up to Frank, and I will be following along as he makes his decisions.